Is It Normal for a Spa to Be Draining Water

imrodee

Hope the picture attached correctly.. Hither goes..

Spa drops 4-5 inches at dark while pool is off.

This has been going on for 3 years on and off. Spa was draining into pool after close off. I take had the check valve replaced 5 times now, a pump replaced (considering information technology burned up..) every gasket removed, replaced, & lubed, had a automatic jandy valves replaced twice, leak test performed (no problems at all.)

Yesterday they sent a plumber out and replaced my 2 way valves with 3 manner valves, cut out the entire plumbing where the cheque valve is, replaced with new pipes and a new checkvalve.

This morn the spa was down about ten inches, the jets were spewing h2o into the spa. I looked at the Pentair console, patently the plumber left it in "Service" mode. How did the spa come on? Freeze alert? Heater non on.. I refilled the spa and once information technology got full, I turned off the hose. Ran the pool as normal.

At this point, I need to allow the water bleed from the spa 100% and but run the pool. Is at that place a way to set that up. I'll turn the spa into a flower pot I guess.

Give thanks you in advance..

JoyfulNoise

Sounds to me similar your suction side of the pump is not sealing the spa drain properly and you're actually sucking water from both the spa and the pool just only returning water to the pool. So as the system runs, the spa is being very slowly tuckered.

Has anyone opened up the 2 automated valves to meet that the seals are correctly aligned? Are the actuators moving in unison?

Is your only return to the spa through the jets or is at that place another spa return to create the spillover without using the jets?

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JoyfulNoise

Also, is at that place a check valve betwixt the pump and the filter?

Has anyone check to see if water is leaking into the air pipe where the blower is fastened?

Was the proper Hartford Loop installed in the spa?

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imrodee

Also, is there a bank check valve between the pump and the filter? Just the one you see in the picture..
Has anyone cheque to run across if water is leaking into the air pipe where the blower is attached? I don't recollect so.. Believe it or non - That was replaced the first week.

Was the proper Hartford Loop installed in the spa? I'm non sure what that is, but I'll google it and enquire Atomic number 82 tomorrow.

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Cheers for your help!! I welcome all thoughts - anybody here is stymied.

ps0303

Was the proper Hartford Loop installed in the spa?
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I would probably accept to guess that since they take a blower, they didn't install a Hartford Loop.

ps0303

Does the spa drain down past the returns? If so, then y'all're looking at something in the drain portion of the pipage.

You lot say this has been "on and off" for three years. So at times it never drains?

Foosman

The starting time step is to decide if the leak is through the spa jets. Equally the water level drops over nighttime, does it stop dropping when the level gets around the jets or does it ever keep below the jets?

imrodee

Does the spa drain down by the returns? If and so, then you're looking at something in the drain portion of the pipe.
Yous say this has been "on and off" for three years. So at times it never drains?

Yes, it seems that during the summertime everything runs normal. I think when the freeze mode comes on, it moves valves to switch from spa to pool, then the trouble starts the nightly spa drain problem.

It used to be a wearisome bleed, so it did not go beneath the jets. To isolate the problem, nosotros turned off the pool entirely for a few days and it drained completely to the flooring drains.

It is draining into the pool, and then out the overflo pipe.

Two months ago nosotros had a leak test washed by a pool homo, and he said it held pressure level just fine. And so he eliminated that problem. Yesterday after the plumber cut out pipes and replaced the check valve, the spa is draining 1.5 inches an hr, much faster.

When freeze alert comes on, the spa jets refill the spa, which takes h2o from the pool..

Thank you for asking!

JoyfulNoise

This is ane reason why I disabled Freeze Protect on the SPA mode (and you should too). All these automation systems have this annoying feature where the freeze protect characteristic oscillates back and forth between POOL mode and SPA way every 15mins!!! It is totally ridiculous and puts a lot of wear and tear on the actuators and valves for no good reason. Unless you live in a northern climate (where you'd winterize your pool anyhow), there is simply Cypher run a risk of your pipes freezing in the Dallas area.

The problem is this - when the valves switch constantly between POOL and SPA, in that location is a moment when BOTH the pool floor drains and spa floor drains are beingness pulled on by the pump. Because the suction side caput loss of the spa is going to be lower than the suction side head loss of the pool drain, more h2o will be fatigued from the spa with each cycle than is returned to it. And so basically each iteration of the valve motions removes a small amount of h2o. Do it plenty times and you can completely drain the spa.

It'due south a stupid feature in the EasyTouch programming that is easily removed. Uncomplicated DISABLE the freeze protect on the SPA excursion then that it merely runs on the Pool excursion. I actually created a "LOW SPEED" feature circuit that actuate the spillway and runs the pump at a very depression speed; just barely enough flow to move h2o though the pipes. I disabled the freeze protect on both the POOL and SPA circuits and only take freeze protect running on that Depression SPEED circuit. I did this because non only would freeze protect activate my POOL circuit and run the pump at fairly loftier speed, it would also activate my WATERFALL characteristic which would appoint a 3HP WhisperFlo pump. Those two combined would draw a HUGE amount of power and drive upwardly my electric nib in the winter.

Y'all demand to reprogram your EasyTouch8. Are you comfortable doing that?

imrodee

Thank you! That makes total sense.

So if I am agreement correctly, disable the Spa Freeze Protect circuit. That would allow the freeze protect to run simply on the pool.

I should gear up upward a low speed feature excursion for merely the pool. I'll certain endeavour that... One problem I MAY accept is that my grotto doesn't get enough pressure level to turn on the falls at depression speed. (Information technology'south pretty far away from the equipment.) But, I volition try!!

Thank you sooo much!!! I'll be back to let you know how I brand out.

Helen

Nedogre20

I had something like to the OP simply I was losing h2o at a rate of 1 inch per day. My raised spa would drain to the height of the returns every night and I could not figure out why. I looked at all my equipment and could not figure out where the water was going. I had a fissure in my Pentair whisperflo pump volute & housing so I replaced that myself. That was not leaking enough to lose 1 inch of water per day so I knew that could not exist the source of my problems so I looked elsewhere. I turned my spa on to estrus upwards on a cold nighttime and the spa would drain to the returns after twenty minutes. The spa jets would be shooting h2o out of the pool. I was very worried at this signal and I knew I had a bigger problem on my easily.

My troubleshooting began in the spa light housing. I close off the pool completely and sealed up the conduit to the spa light and waited over night. The water would still drain to the peak of the spa returns eliminating the spa lite existence the culprit. I then capped every hole in the spa and filled it upward with a garden hose. That confirmed I did not have a leak in the plaster every bit information technology did not leak. I then pulled the plugs on the spa suction drains and water supply on the bottom of the spa and information technology did not leak leaving the but item left are the spa returns. At this signal, I had nothing plugged in the spa and returned the next morning to meet the water level dropped to the meridian of the spa returns confirming I had a leak in that line specifically.

I took off the spa qt blower and glued on a 2 inch pvc tee so I can put on a pressure estimate and a connectedness for my water hose likewise every bit a connectedness for my air compressor. I plugged the four spa returns with inflatable rubber examination plugs. And then I proceeded to fill the line with water then air to ten psi and information technology would drop apace confirming I indeed did have a leak in the line betwixt the pool equipment and the spa.

A motion picture of the 2 inch tee with the force per unit area gauge, water hose and compressor connections:

I do not have whatsoever high tech equipment and so my tool of choice was a styrofoam loving cup with a pigsty in the elevation. After hours of wasting water trying to go along the line pressurized at 10 psi, my idea of laying down on the concrete using a styrofoam cup listening for leaking water paid off every bit I saw a small cleft with a very minor corporeality of water seeping through it. It wont let me attach more than 1 picture so I cant evidence y'all the leak that I spotted on the concrete decking. After seeing the water, I began to drill a series of 1/4 inch holes in the concrete to meet if I can hear water seeping out of the line. BULLSEYE!!!! I not simply heard water leaking, only I also saw the water coming out of the hole. I drilled several more than holes in the vicinity and determined that is where I had a leak. I saw cut a pigsty in the concrete and found very wet soil but no pipe. I was off past nigh a pes so I decided to saw cut a 2x2 pigsty in the concrete and constitute the leak. I shut the compressor and water hose off then began to dig out all the dirty water and mud so I can run across the crack. It was a leak in the 45 degree elbow going straight to the spa returns. I fixed the leak by using the 4 90'southward method and waited for information technology to dry until the next twenty-four hour period. After virtually 24 hours of information technology drying, I turned on the spa to fill it upwardly then left it over night and woke upwardly the side by side morning to a full spa. After contesting this problem for a few weeks, I enjoyed a couple of cold beers sitting within the spa watching the dusk.

I would beloved to post all my pictures but information technology wont allow me probably because I'yard a newbie. If a moderator can assistance me postal service some pics, that would be smashing.

imrodee

Cheers JoyfulNoise. I was able to disable the spa freeze alarm quite easily. The grotto waterfall may or non come up on.. I'thou not sure. Information technology's non on a divide circuit.

My circuits are as follows:
1 - Spa
ii - Pool
iii - Cleaner
4 - Air Blower
5 - Pool Light
vi - Spa Light
7 - Puddle High
eight - Pool Low
ix - Aux
10 - Characteristic 1
11 - Characteristic 2 and so on until...
eighteen - Solar (which I don't have)

Commonly, the way I dispense my grotto is through valves. I accept a ledge bubbler and the grotto waterfall. I tin can usually manipulate them by the "h2o feature" and h2o fall" pipage valves next to the pool return valve/pipe.

What I posted above is the position of how the plumber left the valves. I'm always nervous to alter what the professionals exit me with. (Not that I have e'er moved things..)

I don't think our temp will hitting freeze tonite. I am currently filling the spa/pool back up to normal levels and will check dorsum in the morning.

I tin can't Thanks enough for setting me straight on the SPA freeze alert settings. It says that right on the Piece of cake Touch Quick Reference Guide!! Whoda thought... Right?? The Builder'due south people set information technology upwardly, I've never looked at that item setting. I'll bet you've answered a zillion problems on here! Thank you lot.

JoyfulNoise

You're welcome./ I hope it indeed solves your problem.

I don't want to lead you down the wrong path, but I honestly think freeze protect is a waste of fourth dimension for your climate. I'm in Tucson which is not that much further due south than y'all in latitude and we exercise get the occasional overnight freezing temps but it's not enough to cause problems. Unless yous go days on end of freezing temperatures, and I mean dark & day it is below freezing, then there is almost zero chance of the water freezing in your pipes. This is why I took both my waterfall pump and pool/spa circuits off freeze protection; it was just a waste of energy.

Practice what you think is right for your climate but non having the grotto run or the bubblers going is not going to matter.

Fingers crossed.

imrodee

I had something similar to the OP but I was losing water at a rate of 1 inch per day. My raised spa would drain to the acme of the returns every nighttime and I could not figure out why. I looked at all my equipment and could not figure out where the h2o was going. I had a cleft in my Pentair whisperflo pump volute & housing so I replaced that myself. That was not leaking plenty to lose one inch of h2o per twenty-four hour period and then I knew that could not exist the source of my problems so I looked elsewhere. I turned my spa on to oestrus upward on a cold night and the spa would drain to the returns after 20 minutes. The spa jets would be shooting h2o out of the pool. I was very worried at this bespeak and I knew I had a bigger problem on my hands.
My troubleshooting began in the spa light housing. I shut off the pool completely and sealed upwardly the conduit to the spa light and waited over night. The water would still drain to the peak of the spa returns eliminating the spa light being the culprit. I and then capped every pigsty in the spa and filled information technology up with a garden hose. That confirmed I did not have a leak in the plaster as it did not leak. I and then pulled the plugs on the spa suction drains and water supply on the bottom of the spa and information technology did not leak leaving the but item left are the spa returns. At this point, I had nix plugged in the spa and returned the next morning to meet the water level dropped to the height of the spa returns confirming I had a leak in that line specifically.

I took off the spa qt blower and glued on a ii inch pvc tee so I tin can put on a pressure gauge and a connection for my water hose besides every bit a connection for my air compressor. I plugged the 4 spa returns with inflatable rubber test plugs. And then I proceeded to fill up the line with water then air to 10 psi and information technology would driblet apace confirming I indeed did accept a leak in the line between the pool equipment and the spa.

I do not have any high tech equipment then my tool of choice was a styrofoam cup with a hole in the top. After hours of wasting water trying to keep the line pressurized at 10 psi, my idea of laying down on the concrete using a styrofoam cup listening for leaking water paid off as I saw a pocket-sized crack with a very pocket-sized amount of water seeping through information technology. It wont let me attach more than one flick so I cant testify you lot the leak that I spotted on the concrete decking. After seeing the h2o, I began to drill a serial of 1/4 inch holes in the concrete to run across if I can hear water seeping out of the line. BULLSEYE!!!! I not only heard water leaking, but I besides saw the water coming out of the hole. I drilled several more holes in the vicinity and adamant that is where I had a leak. I saw cut a hole in the physical and constitute very wet soil simply no piping. I was off by about a foot so I decided to saw cut a 2x2 hole in the concrete and institute the leak. I shut the compressor and water hose off so began to dig out all the muddied water and mud so I can see the crack. It was a leak in the 45 degree elbow going straight to the spa returns. I fixed the leak by using the iv xc's method and waited for it to dry until the next twenty-four hour period. After virtually 24 hours of it drying, I turned on the spa to fill information technology up then left it over dark and woke up the next forenoon to a full spa. After battling this trouble for a few weeks, I enjoyed a couple of cold beers sitting within the spa watching the dusk.

I would dear to mail service all my pictures only information technology wont let me probably because I'grand a newbie. If a moderator tin help me post some pics, that would be great.

(I edited for space..)

Cheers Nedgro20! I was able to determine through a leak detection company that determined I didn't accept a "leak". However after the terminal plumber was here I may have one now.. the water is going down whether the pumps are running or not.

Previously, I was losing i-3 inches overnight, when the pumps were off. After he left yesterday, I'm losing that in an hour. Plumber also said that I needed to supersede an activator because it "wasn't turning." When I got home I tried the toggle and information technology moved. He had the pinnacle nut screwed downwards and so tight, it COULDN'T move! %#@(&^%$# The actuator valves are gear up to come up on at freeze alert - just if they can't budge considering they are too tight. Oh my.. NO WONDER the actuators are burning upwards! I'm as well old to go to plumbing schoolhouse, merely I may take to.

This is my get-go pool, and I am learning the HARD way.

I did want to mention that I did have a leak detector company come a few months ago and check out the spa, and we passed with flying colors - a few months ago. Just you accept me thinking for other possibilities for sure!

Have you ever idea of that "Ready A Leak" stuff? I saw that later your suggested video.

imrodee

You're welcome./ I promise it indeed solves your problem.
I don't want to lead you down the wrong path, but I honestly call up freeze protect is a waste material of time for your climate. I'thousand in Tucson which is not that much further s than yous in latitude and we do get the occasional overnight freezing temps but it'southward not enough to crusade problems. Unless you lot get days on end of freezing temperatures, and I mean night & mean solar day it is below freezing, then at that place is almost zip hazard of the water freezing in your pipes. This is why I took both my waterfall pump and pool/spa circuits off freeze protection; it was just a waste of free energy.

Exercise what y'all think is right for your climate only not having the grotto run or the bubblers going is not going to matter.

Fingers crossed.

Give thanks y'all!! The thing is, your rationale for not doing it makes 100% sense to me. NOT to mention the "Piece of cake Touch Pool and Spa Automation Guide" says the aforementioned matter! I just figured my pool people would know that. I've never delved that deep into the settings because that's not my thing. I can gear up basic settings, schedules, LED colors, merely that'due south about it. Non that I won't try... I just need to be guided.

Pentair is not known for the best directions on anything they sell... but they are the all-time in my stance.

imrodee

I just filled the spa and puddle to capacity.
It's 57 degrees at nine:45pm so I don't know if freeze protection volition come on tonite.

We'll run into if levels lower... fingers crossed!

JoyfulNoise

You can always simulate a freeze by submerging the air temperature sensor at the panel in a bag of water ice/salt/water. One time air temp sensor registers less than 34F, the freeze protect will activate.

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imrodee

Yous can always simulate a freeze by submerging the air temperature sensor at the panel in a bag of ice/common salt/water. Once air temp sensor registers less than 34F, the freeze protect will activate.
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Cheers.. but that'south a bit over my head. :shock:

Not really, it's ALOT over my head.

JamesW

He had the top nut screwed down so tight, it COULDN'T move!

The locking nut on the automated valve is not supposed to be able to lock the handle.

The handle on the return valve looks like the wrong one.

It should look like the one on the suction side.

Stuart Uposecushers

Is It Normal for a Spa to Be Draining Water

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